Jenny Lyn Bader and Julie Kramer
None of the Above
A nytheatre voices cyber-interview
Jenny Lyn Bader is a playwright and Julie Kramer is a director. This play is their 15th collaboration. Jenny is a prolific playwright and her works have been produced across the country and can be found in several play anthologies. Julie has directed in NYC and at various other venues across the country. She is a Young Director in Residence at Ensemble Studio Theatre.
Pictured: Jenny Lyn Bader
Bader: None of the Above is a comedy about privilege, entitlement, and about trying to hold onto your values in a world that has none. I think there are a lot of depressing plays out there, and don’t get me wrong, I love a good cry as much as the next person — but I hope people come to this play because they want a serious laugh, because they crave a real satire of the crazy age we live in.
Kramer: Yes! It’s a really funny play about the relationship between a rich private school girl and her SAT tutor, an impoverished PhD student. It's about what they think they know about each other, and what they find out to be true. About learning things that aren't in books and can't be measured by a number.
Bader: I do believe people aren’t what we think. And I mean that in a hopeful way. Some playwrights show us people who aren’t what we think, they’re much worse. But I think they’re better. The play speaks against stereotyping people no matter who they are.
Kramer: That's so nice. I think that’s true, it’s a hopeful play. It's also a tremendously witty, clever play with two unbelievable performances by some incredible young actors.
I remember seeing this play several seasons ago. Were both of you involved with that production and how has it changed, if at all, from this earlier work?
Kramer: I directed that production of None of the Above, too. The play has changed pretty significantly since then, which Jenny Lyn can speak to. In terms of how it's changed for me, I think I have a much deeper understanding of what the play is really about. That hopefulness, that sense of possibility, in addition to the wit and satire. I have more confidence in knowing what works, and so can go further and make fuller, more provocative choices than I could before. And working with different actors always makes for a completely different experience. Their process is different, their questions are different, their insights and approaches to their characters are all utterly different. And I think that has really shaken me up in the best possible way.
Bader: Watching Julie direct it now is remarkable, her insights into the play are even deeper than before, which I didn't think possible. The earlier version you saw was actually a period piece set in 1995, which is the real year that the College Board changed the curve of the S.A.T. This one is set in the present day. It's strange how a play can suddenly be made to feel dated by a minor change in the world. I find when I read 18th-century plays, some of them have three zillion footnotes because the authors got bogged down in topical references… Others feel fresh, as if they could happen today. You always want to write stories that don’t get dated. But you can really be taken by surprise. Which I was when the College Board suddenly up and changed the S.A.T. in a way that really affected my play. When I revisited the script for this production, I felt I had to update it or it might be confusing or alienating to the younger members of the audience, maybe not now but in potential future productions. The score doesn’t even come in an envelope anymore! And It’s not all multiple-choice now, there’s a writing section, a perfect score is 2400 instead of 1600. Analogies, which most grown-ups who took the test remember with some strong nostalgia or repulsion, have been eliminated. I’ve dealt with the new test in a way I hope will be enjoyable for all ages, so every generation feels it’s aimed at them in a sense. Making it contemporary also allowed me to have a little fun in other ways with the script.
Kramer: It’s actually really interesting, the way the SAT has changed. To me, it was so fixed in my memory — it’s such a touchstone of so many people’s experiences. I felt outraged when Jenny Lyn told me that they had taken out analogies entirely. And not waiting for the envelope! Heresy! How can you get a real score online? Not to mention the staging challenge it presented.
Bader: Like Julie, I’ve also benefited tremendously from the experience of seeing the play on its feet. One whole scene has been cut, and there’s new material. I’ve also been tailoring the roles to our current actors. I hope people who saw it before will come to our new, fully up-to-the-minute version!
Kramer: It's going to have a very different look too, even with the same set designer, now that it's set today instead of in the 90's. We've been discussing how people display wealth differently now. Decorators have different concepts. And I don't want to give too much away but the set for this Off-Broadway debut is going to be... more interactive.
You have both worked together on many productions. How do you feel your styles, thoughts, etc. complement each other’s work?
Kramer: I think we both share that love of and appreciation for comedy, that real respect for a great joke and the wonder of creating something that makes people laugh and gives them a really joyous and challenging experience in a difficult world. And I think we have a similar sense of humor, we really crack each other up on a daily basis, which is important when you're working on a comedy together. We also have a shared appreciation for language and a sense of the absurd.
Bader: What she said.
Kramer: I think we just get each other. We anticipate what the other one is thinking or concerned about.
Bader: Yep. This is our fifteenth collaboration. Even in our first production, our sensibilities overlapped a lot. But now it’s ridiculous. We often take the same notes, sometimes in the same words. I remember watching someone who was hamming it up in an audition, overdoing the role but not drastically so, just slightly. I wrote in my notebook, “a little broad.” I looked over and Julie had written “a little broad” too.
Kramer: That was crazy! I also think we're about equally neurotic and compulsive, which can be helpful when you're the kind of person (as I am) who likes to call and email 100 times a day. Neither of us is particularly laid-back.
Bader: But what’s nice is that in calm moment, one of us can have the illusion of appearing laid-back in contrast to the other one!
Kramer: So true. Our neuroses complement each other well. Another thing I think we share, and I think we both take for granted at this point, is that we both really want to put women up on stage who are fully realized, intelligent, articulate and funny individuals.
Bader: Oh we take each other for granted a lot now! We're not even surprised when we finish each other's sentences. It's ho-hum, there you go again. But yes, it's worth mentioning that we're both extremely committed to creating strong roles for women, and strong comic roles for women.
How authentic a representation of ‘real’ people is written into this play or are they written/directed as ‘larger than life’ so as to make a point?
Kramer: Well, these characters seem archetypal at first, and I think the process of the play is unpacking those archetypes, getting to know the reality behind who we think these people are. In terms of style, the dialogue demands a bit of stylization, more like a classical piece. I also think that this is very much like life, but heightened. So she doesn't go to an existing private school, she goes to Billington, everything is just a little bit more than it is in reality.
Bader: It’s a heightened reality, a theatrical reality. I think my plays are like reality but just a few degrees off. Not wildly off, not completely absurdist, but just a little off, slightly akilter. Like life, only more so. — Events proceed in a way we recognize, only amplified. The characters behave the way people do, but are more outlandish and quirkier.
Kramer: And there is a fairy-tale element to the play, which allows for magical possibilities in the world of the play that aren't possible in ours.
Bader: Yes. There are glimmers of magic at the edges.
Kramer: As usual you’ve expressed it perfectly. That’s exactly what it is.
Why this topic, now?
Bader: Frankly I’ve been writing the play for a while but it’s just becoming “of the moment.” I read in the paper this week there’s a new baby boom so there are more 17 year-olds than ever. We’re living through an unprecedented age of wealth. The gap between the classes, and the potential for conflict there, has gotten wider and wider. There were always privileged people but now I think we are living through an age of hyperprivilege, where people with more money than was ever possible before are setting the agenda for everybody else. And of course the college process has reached new levels of insanity, with the $30,000 private consultants and the fleets of tutors. There are even consultants who will help get you in to the right nursery school so you’re on the right track.
There’s an explosion of tutoring — kids in private schools have as many outside tutors as they have regular teachers, and at the top these tutors charge upwards of $700 an hour. I think there’s a tutoring culture, which is part of the whole coaching culture, the pressure to get outside help, to hire a specialized consultant to fix your life. As if schools can’t give students what they need to survive anymore. The pressure is huge, not only on kids but on parents who feel they have to hire tutors because other parents are doing it or because the school says to. It’s harder to get into college too. It’s not just the private school students anymore, kids from all backgrounds are getting lured into college prep. There’s one non-profit group, College Summit, that offers workshops to low-income high school seniors all across the country, helping them revise their college essays for their applications.
Kramer: Yes, it seems like the competition around getting into a good college is so much crazier than it used to be, parents are planning for it from their kids' birth. This used to be more of a New York and urban phenomenon but now it seems to be everywhere. And it's stealing childhood away from kids, and it's making parents feel like that's the measure of their parenting, where their kids go to college. It turns learning into what's going to be on the test, rather than a desire for deep knowledge. And ultimately that makes for a shallow understanding of the world and other people. So I think this play pokes some holes in that, in a way that's fun to watch.
Bader: None of the Above takes a look at the modern family too. In our over-programmed, overextended, multitasking times, the issue of parental neglect, which hovers over the play, has become more worrisome. Also, in terms of what's out there: I think there are a lot of negative and stereotypical portrayals of young people in our culture right now, especially of young women. I think it’s important to try to go beyond those, to look at the dimensions and layers and complexities of those who are coming of age right now, not just at their eye-rolling and iPhones and designer shoes.
What’s up next for both of you?
Bader: I’m working on a historical drama, a musical, and — evidence I’ve completely lost my mind — a full-length verse play in heroic couplets. I’ve been editing for publication three of my one-acts that will be published in Best 10-Minute Plays: 2007. And I’m one of the writers of a play written by ten people based on a note found on the New York City subway, a piece that’s about to be workshopped.
Kramer: I have a grant to direct a workshop of a new play by Wendy Weiner about Hillary Clinton with New Georges. And my show Mother Load by Amy Wilson which ran Off-Broadway in the spring is gearing up for a national tour. And hopefully more projects with Jenny Lyn!
Bader: Oh yes! Let’s start one now.
September 19, 2007
